Livemocha - Language Learning and Social Networking
If your new year's resolution is to learn a language, you could check out livemocha.com. The site currently offers free learning materials for
- German
- English
- Spanish
- French
- Hindi
- Mandarin Chinese
LiveMocha describes itself as 'an exciting Web 2.0 startup' based in Seattle. They aim to 'ride one of the greatest macro economic trends of our time - globalization'. And they want to do this by leveraging social networking technologies.
As I write, Livemocha is in beta and aims to make money from ad revenue. However, they will add a subscription layer early this year that might cost $10 to $20 a month.
So does it work?
I'm not sure. I enrolled a few days ago to learn French. There are four French courses - 2 basic, 2 advanced. The two basic courses claim to provide 100 hours of learning. The advanced courses provide 30 hours each.
LIVEMOCHA LEARNING MODEL
I've just been through 6 basic lessons so far. The lessons follow a basic learning model:
- learn
- read
- listen
- magnet
- write
- speak
In LEARN mode, you see and hear new vocabulary, with images. In READ mode you read text, then select the correct image. In LISTEN mode, you listen to audio, then select the correct image. In MAGNET mode, you hear a phrase in your language, and you form a sentence using the words given to you.
In WRITE mode, you can use the vocabulary you've learned to write a short piece. You must then submit this to the learner community, where it will be rated. In SPEAK mode, you can record yourself speaking the vocabulary you've learned, and submit this for rating by the community.
HOW YOU LEARN
So technically, you're given a nice little model for learning. My problem is that you're expected to learn 40 pieces of information in each round. So you're given 40 slides which contain both new words and new words combinations.
It works fine for me, however, I studied French for years at school, and want to revise. I don't believe a complete beginner could cope with learning 40 new words/phrases from scratch. I mean, our brain usually likes to deal with no more than 7 new things at a time. Anything more than that slips down the back of the sofa...
LIVEMOCHA LEARNING CONTENT
I think that the write and speak modes are a great idea in principle. However, after covering basic vocab like 'it is, it isn't, she is, she isn't, girl, girls, flower, flowers', LiveMocha asked me to describe the first house I ever lived in. Which of course would require use of past tense and a wider vocabulary. This is frustrating and makes me think that the developers were lazy.
However, I submitted a few written exercises to see what would happen. I got email notifications that my exercises had been rated and commented on. And when I checked, I'd received useful corrections on the mistakes in my work.
I can't rate how useful the social networking side of the site will be for my learning. It interests me however and hopefully I can blog more about it later.
LIVEMOCHA - LANGUAGE LEARNING AND SOCIAL NETWORKING
I think that the social networking side of Livemocha works. It's easy to make friends. It's easy to contact people. The site is well supported with tutors. But then we have pretty much cracked social networking online: we all know how to connect people and get them talking.
The harder thing to crack I think is the formal learning aspect. And I'm not convinced by Livemocha right now. I'll keep plugging away (and will admit I'm strangely motivated by their leader board, which rates me in comparison to other learners). But I'm already bored by the templated content. And as much as I can network socially, I can't create my own learning materials, or add content. It's a closed learning experience.
LIVEMOCHA - THE VERDICT
Livemocha is currently disappointing me. The locked-down web 1.0 (or textbook) learning experience is linked to the fantastic potential of social networking. I wouldn't pay for content at this stage, but if things change, I'll be sure to blog about it.
Still - it's worth signing up while it's free to have a poke around!
Labels: language learning, learn french, livemocha, social networking
posted by Michelle Gallen at
2:16 PM
13 Comments:
Michelle, I work at LiveMocha and want to thank you for this very detailed review.
Let me address a few points:
- From the feedback we have gathered so far, we have not found that 40 words/phrases are too much for beginners to learn. Have you heard differently from a beginner using LiveMocha?
- Your concerns about the writing and speaking exercises being to hard in the first lessons are very real. We are working hard to make these exercises sync better with the content and skill level of each lesson.
- We are working on rolling out a platform where our user base would be creating the learning content. Of course we must make sure all of the content is effective in teaching a language. For now we allow users to add tips to the learn section of each lesson. Do you find the tips section helpful?
-Aseem Badshah
aseem@livemocha.com
Hi Aseem,
Thanks for your comment - I'll try to answer everything!
A lot of learning theory states that most of us can only cope with about 7 pieces of information at a time. And that anything more than 9 pieces gets lost (think of memorising a list of numbers). In a language-learning project I worked on previously, we tested different vocabulary learning games, and I found that when the learners got to focus on learning groups of related words in groups of 9 or less, they learned and retained the information better. They also stayed more engaged because the learning was in shorter, faster bursts. I definitely cannot assimilate 20-30 new pieces of information over 40 slides. Perhaps your learners (apart from me!) haven't commented on this because learners often don't attribute a failure to learn on the learning materials, they're more likely to blame themselves. I'm interested in the course completion rate for your learners. How many drop out?
It's great that you're working on synching the writing and speaking exercises with the content. I think that these exercises are massively important in providing learners with the chance to retain information by using it. They also link learners socially. I have a reservation on the completion of exercises though. I was asked to review a spoken exercise from a learner who seemed to (whether by accident or deliberation) have just recorded silence. I guess silence still gets the learner points, but was very frustrating for me - I wondered were my speakers not working, was I doing something wrong, then figured it could just be a lazy learner.
Quality assurance on user-generated content is always a concern. However, with your voting systems I imagine it'll be very easy to let people vote on content for accuracy, usefulness and maybe enjoyment. I'll be very interested to see this in action!
The tips section is useful in several ways - I missed reviewing it. Your tutors add useful comments, which break up the repetitive nature of the learning, and add value. However, the tips/comments from learners reveal where your content is or isn't working - e.g. in the case of an inaccurate translation, there is a complaint by one of the learners that this is really frustrating. Another learner has explained how the translation is wrong, which helped me through the slide. And your voting system for agreeing/disagreeing with slides showed me that 10 users were very frustrated with the minor mistranslation in the learning material, while only 1 learner wasn't bothered. These comments must be a great way for you to gather user feedback. I think they're great.
I'm still engaged in learning with livemocha - the social side has kept me interested. I'm still not a fan of your learning materials, but I want to try them for as long as possible, simply to see how they work for me. I'll be feeding back on the site some more later on. Thanks again for taking time to feedback on your plans for livemocha.com!
Michelle,
Can we take this conversation offline? My email is aseem@livemocha.com
I for one was very disappointed that this conversation was taken off-line given the fact that LiveMocha does not host its own "open" blog. Very curious given the fact that they bill themselves as a social learning site.
Hi Mike,
Aseem asked to take the conversation offline so we could talk about how I could feedback more formally for livemocha - I think the offline conversation may have been as much for my privacy as livemocha's privacy.
I didn't notice they didn't have a blog on their site though, which I would have thought really would be a good chance to market their services and connect with learners.
Livemocha and Chinesepod recently got a very positive review from the NY Times - check it out here.
I have to say though, that the article does seem to be written by a reporter who has researched the story, but not actually used the product...
Michelle,
Thanks for this great blog! I just stumbled upon it while writing a review for Palabea. Really appreciated your feedback about livemocha as well; I'm curious and will sign up to check it out.
Thanks,
an educator in PA
Glad you found the post useful! Feel free to contact me or to post back on the site on how you found livemocha or any of the other resources.
Good luck!
Michelle
Hi Michelle, I love your review for livemocha.com Since I've basically studied French, Spanish, and Japanese it's not uber difficult, but I still get a lot of problems with it. Their quizzes consists of questions not covered in that particular lesson you've just studied. It goes way beyond the basic and is intended for people who are in the intermediate level.
I've had many instances where I've had to review those trying to learn English and their answers are way off or they end up repeating the questions asked. I realized that they must have an even more difficult time with this since the questions are in English. For a beginner this becomes an excruciating obstacle.
Live mocha's quizzes and questions really need to coincide with not only the lesson previously learned but also based on that skill level. A question on the basic level really needs to be on the "basic" level--something that a child learning to talk would be asked or else the learner is going to be lost in translation.
The Japanese lessons are a little bit hard to get and that's because it doesn't have the romaji (romanized) version of it. They're all in characters. Sometimes a person needs to see how it's spelled out or the pronunciation is just going to be a mess.
Another problem I have with it is that I can't have a hundred percent completion of a specific course unless I do the speaking part of the quiz--I don't have a mic to record my answers to.
But other than that, even with a few glitches here and there, I'm still keeping on, after all, I'm bound to learn a word or two a day.
Thanks for the comment on LiveMocha. I've not been on for a while now. I aim to go back soon and see how it's developed. Anyone else been using it for longer than just a few weeks? I'm curious to see how long the average user sticks with this way of learning!
Thanks!
Hi Michelle and the rest out there,
I have not been using Livemocha for "more than a few weeks" so far, but I still wanted to add some thoughts.
I experienced that the Chinese lessons use some new/different characters, which were not taught in the respective lesson. Quite frustrating, especially since they are different characters for (English) vocabulary, which *has* been taught...??!?
Also, I add to the comment on content and learner's level. Especially when you are supposed to learn a language with its own characters, e.g. Mandarin, I think that easy/common words should be learnt. This holds for the major part of Livemocha vocab. But I think one should also take care that the responding characters are not too difficult - which does not hold by far, sadly. I guess this is due to the fact that all learners share the same lesson contents, which are simply translated.
Furthermore, the team seems to be extremely busy, since they did not respond to 2 feedback requests I sent them.
Aaaand, I think the number of new vocabulary is not well-balanced. At least, that's what I experienced after the first 5,6 lessons. One lesson I have to cope with 20+ new vocab, the next I learn only 2? Strange thing...
Last not least, I want to say that I nevertheless really like the idea and the service. I feel the lesson contents could be improved, but it is still free and so far a great chance of learning. I wouldn't recommend it as the only way of learning though, rather an accompanying method.
Cheers and be sure to check it out, if you haven't done so yet! Alex
Hi Alex,
Thanks for talking about your experience with LiveMocha. I really do have to get back and see what they've done with the site since the start. I've had a few other emails about LiveMocha and other social networks for language learners - and most people are positive, but very much view the websites as a support to a more structured learning environment. My guess is we're just not there yet - the websites aren't good enough, the technologies aren't joined up, and we as learners probably need to learn how to make the most of what's there. I know that I need to improve my friend making skills, and actually start communicating with other online learners, instead of just wanting to have quizzes and games ;)
Thanks again,
Michelle
I enjoyed the above comments. I joined Livemocha a few months ago and stated at beginners level French. I found the short excersise useful in that it helped me to hear th spoken word and then have the opportunity to submit a recording myself. Its abit hit and miss if anyone respond. But I have had some good and useful feedback. I also started the beginners Japanese and found this ner on impossible to follow. Most of it is in kanji and limited hiragana to follow. I therefore am at a total loss when there is an opportunity to submit anything spoken/recorded.
Livemocha have recently changed the way you score points - through contribution and offering feedback. There is also the facility for the person submitting the work to comment on the quality of the feedback - this I think is good as I have often found feedback from non-English speakers and what they have offered as useful feedback has been, totally incorrect. Having said all of this - I would recommend this site to others who are interested in language learning and culture. However, I cannt see myself paying a fee to subscribe to this site in the furture mainly due to the volume of free sites on the web - but thanks to them I am now learning 2 new languages -
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